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Meridian article
Letter One

Letter Two

Letter Three

Letter Four

Letter Five

Letter Six

Letter Seven

Letter Eight

Letter Nine

Letter Ten

Final Note


Correspondence between
Susie Q. and Dr. Daniel C. Peterson


The genesis of this correspondence was a letter to Dr. Peterson, attacking him regarding an article that appeared in Meridian Magazine (an online Internet private LDS magazine); one which Dr. Peterson and Dr. Hamblin wrote together.  In recent weeks (as of June 2004), Dr. Peterson has come under fire on the Recovery from Mormonism message board and Susie Q. has joined in.  SusieQ characterized her correspondence with Dr. Peterson by describing him as :

"barring none, the worst example of how Mormons behave that I have ever seen," as "disrespectful, arrogant, rude, and generally discourteous," and as a "despicable, horrible man" who "will reap what he sows," 

and remarked that, 

"If that is the kind of person they are hiring now, BYU has gone in the toilet.

It seems now that Susie Q. wishes to suppress her prior correspondence, but continue with the vitriol.  Moreover, she specifically suppresses her initial volleys, even when "called" on it.  So, without further ado, we present the original article and the correspondence that ensued.  We interject, but one comment and link.


Meridian Magazine article:

Is Religion Irrational and Anti-Intellectual?

A significant principle of what could be called “secular orthodoxy”—the core beliefs of modern secularists—is the conviction that religion is inherently irrational and anti-intellectual.  Although usually simply asserted rather than argued, this proposition is fundamental to much of the critique by secularists of the role of religion in modern society.  Essentially, their argument insists that the world would be a much better place without religion.  This is not a sectarian debate about whether a particular denomination, belief, or practice is inspired or even beneficial or harmful.  Rather, it is a critique of religiousness in general, and, in its extreme form, is universalistic in its condemnation of all forms of religion throughout history.  

A common technique of the secular critics of religion is the use of the fallacy of the false generalization—finding one example of aberrant behavior by a believer in a particular denomination, and claiming that this aberration is not only normative for all followers of that particular denomination but for all believers in all religious denominations throughout history.  (Jon Krakauer’s recent Under the Banner of Heaven is a monumental exercise in precisely this fallacy.)  Of course, these same people always cry foul whenever someone—using precisely the same fallacious methodology—attempts to blame the crimes of Josef Stalin on all atheists because Stalin was an atheist.

A recent example of the secularist attack on religiousness can be found in the Op-ed section of the New York Times (“Believe it, or not,” August 15, 2003, http://www.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/; note, one must be registered with the NYT to access this web page).  In his article, Nicholas Kristof seems to assume a dichotomy between reason and religion:

  • “American Christianity is becoming less intellectual and more mystical over time.” 
  • There is a “poisonous divide … between intellectual and religious America.”
  • The “scholarly and religious worlds [are] increasingly antagonistic.”
  • He sees a “drift [among believers] away from a rich intellectual tradition  … toward the mystical.”

For Kristof, religious belief is inherently unscholarly and anti-intellectual.  A true intellectual and scholar simply cannot believe in this religion nonsense.  But such a claim is demonstrably untrue.  To take an illustration from just one field:  St. Thomas Aquinas, the titan of medieval scholastic philosophy, was one of the most rational humans who have ever lived.  “Safely medieval,” someone like Kristof might respond.  But the Society of Christian Philosophers, flourishing to a degree that few would have thought possible only two or three decades ago, counts among its members some of the most eminent philosophical minds now working—including noted thinkers in the powerhouse philosophy department at Notre Dame, where their existence might not seem so surprising, but also in such places as Yale and Oxford.

A related rhetorical ploy used by Kristof is his claim that “most biblical scholars” reject the historicity of the virgin birth.  This claim is even remotely plausible only if one systematically excludes from the data pool all conservative Protestants and Catholics with doctorates in religious studies.  What Kristof really means, of course is that “most secular biblical scholars” reject the virgin birth—which is hardly a great discovery, since their secular presuppositions allow them no alternative.  You see, believers in the virgin birth, even if they have Ph.D.s and teach in the field at universities, are not really “scholars.” 

All this posturing is rather ironic when we remember the original meaning and history of the word intellectual and its cognates intellect and intelligence (Latin: intellectus, intellegere, intelligentia).  In the classical sense of the term, intellect means essentially “understanding,” but in its technical philosophical and theological usage, the term refers to the capacity of the soul and mind to perceive and understand spiritual realities.  In a widespread version of Western epistemology—the doctrine of how we “know”—humans are endowed with senses, which allow us to understand the material world; with imagination, which allows us to understand, remember, and manipulate images derived from the senses; and intellect, which allows us to understand spiritual realities.  The intellect is the highest and most powerful of our mental and spiritual faculties.  Since the Enlightenment, however, there has been a steady transformation of the meaning of the term in English from the capacity to perceive and understand spiritual realities to the capacity to understand the material world.  Indeed, for Kristof, and many like him, intellectual now means precisely the opposite of what it originally meant: a Kristofian “intellectual” is someone who necessarily rejects the very existence of spiritual reality.  It is all merely irrational “mysticism” (another term that Kristof grotesquely misunderstands and misuses).   Now admittedly, Kristof is using the term intellectual in its normative early twenty-first century English sense.  But the transformation of the meaning of the word is an integral part of the centuries-long battle between agnosticism and religion, which now allows Kristof to proclaim victory precisely because, due to its redefinition, there can be no such thing as a religious intellectual.  Kristof is engaged in lexical imperialism—defining the meaning of a word in such a way as to gain an illegitimate ideological advantage. 

Whereas Descartes’ famous dictum Cogito, ergo sum—“I think, therefore I am”—was foundational to the Enlightenment, its spiritual alternative would be Intellego, ergo sum—“I understand [spiritual realities], therefore I am”—or, as St. Anselm put it, “I believe, that I might understand” (credo ut intelligam).  St. Augustine agreed: “Faith seeks,” he said, “understanding finds” (fides quaerit, intellectus invenit).  Faith is not the opposite of intellect; rather faith is the foundation for the true intellectual.  In other words, according to the original sense of the word, the only true intellectuals—indeed, the only people who can use the intellect—are believers who use the full capacity of their souls and minds to seek an understanding of the things of God.  (It is likely, by the way, that Abraham 3.19-22 and Doctrine and Covenants 93:29-36 and 130:18-19 use intelligence—the capacity to be intellectual—in this original sense of the word, often obscured in priesthood quorum discussions of these verses, which assume the post-Enlightenment meaning.)

In reality, at the foundation of the critics’ assertions that religion is irrational and anti-intellectual is the fact that religious believers have a different set of founding assumptions than do secularists.  Secularist agnostics and atheists are necessarily materialists and naturalists.  Believers claim the existence of a spiritual reality.  Both claims are equally unprovable, and remain presuppositions.  But it is no more a matter of faith to presuppose the existence of God than it is to presuppose that God does not exist.  Neither proposition can be demonstrated to others beyond possible doubt; both are therefore matters of faith.

Secularists nonetheless attempt to define the rules of the debate with believers by claiming that only people who reject spiritual things can be rational and intellectual.  Historically, of course, their position is simply absurd.  If believing in God makes one irrational and anti-intellectual, one must, with a wave of the hand, dismiss most of the great thinkers of world history—Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Plotinus, Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, Erasmus, Luther, Pascal, Kierkegaard.  And these are only a few names from the western tradition, to which could be added hundreds of Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists and Confucianists.  The history of science also teaches us that, while relying on the material evidence of the senses alone, one can be perfectly reasonable and yet quite definitively mistaken.  Given the presuppositions and evidence of the fourteenth century it was eminently reasonable to believe in geocentricity; it was also completely wrong.  Likewise, belief in galaxies or viruses would have been sheer folly before the nineteenth century. 

We want to emphasize that we believe reason to be a powerful and important mental tool in human life and thought.  We encourage everyone—especially those who disagree with us!—to be as reasonable and rational as possible.  But, like all other tools, it has its limitations.  If one is seeking to insert a screw into a wall, a hammer, despite its obvious power, is a poor choice—as one of us has found to his dismay on several occasions.  The most obvious proof of reason’s limitations is the simple fact that, despite centuries of study and discussion, secular agnostics, all of whom claim equally to be followers of pure reason, have been unable to come to any consensus about any major philosophical issue (other than, perhaps, the idea that God does not exist, which, of course, they actually cannot prove).  Indeed, many “intellectuals” today argue, in a rather astonishing abandonment of the essence of reason and intellect, that pure reason must lead us ultimately to relativism, the belief that there is no truth or reality, only perception and political power. 

Now we certainly agree that there is an enormous amount of unmitigated silliness masquerading as religious belief.  There always has been, and, we presume, always will be.  On the other hand, the same can be said concerning ideas about politics, economics, modern art, archaeology, health-care, space aliens, fashion, wine tasting, and, yes, even agnosticism and atheism.  But “intellectuals” like Kristof indulge in straw-man tactics when they deride religious faith as irrational and anti-intellectual.  Secularist critics of religion have a responsibility to engage the strongest rational arguments and thinkers religion has produced—not the weakest—if they want their views to be taken as anything other than sloganeering and cheerleading for like-minded atheists.


Letter One (from Susie Q.)

------ Forwarded Message
From: Scot & Maurine Proctor <proctor@meridianmagazine.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:40:02 -0400
To: Daniel Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Subject: Fw: I could not decide...

Dan,
We always get a few of these letters on any substantial article.  Thanks for your good work.
Maurine
----- Original Message -----
From: Removed by request of the writer
To: editor@meridianmagazine.com
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 3:07 PM
Subject: I could not decide...

whether this article "Ideas and Society: Is Religion Irrational and Anti Intellectual" was humor-satire, or a logic fallacy test.  Either way, it was quite a funny read.  There are two blatant logic fallacy usage's which would make you fail the test with flying colors. I will leave it to you to figure out which ones I am referring to.

   I would not give you high marks for your definitions of the words either. You definitions are so subjective, they are transparent!  I will leave it to you to review the word definitions in common usage also!

As a long time-Mormon  (now resigned) I can see that your target audience (believing Mormons) would eat up this stuff!

You guys really ought to be writing satire for a humor magazine.

   For grown men with an education, I can only presume that this is humor as it does not meet  any other standard.

   cheers

   Former Mormon who sees right through your posturing!

Letter Two (from Dr. Daniel C. Peterson)

From: Daniel C. Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:53:16 -0600
To: Removed by request of the writer
Subject: Re: I could not decide...

Dear “Suzzies”:

Your thoughtful and meticulously researched letter was passed on to me by the editors at Meridian.

Talk about hilarious posturing!

With best wishes,

Dan Peterson

Letter Three (from Susie Q. Todd)

From: Removed by request of the writer
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:16:55 -0400 (EDT)
To: daniel_peterson@byu.edu
Subject: Re: I could not decide...

In a message dated 9/8/2003 4:07:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, daniel_peterson@byu.edu writes:
Your thoughtful and meticulously researched letter was passed on to me by the editors at Meridian.
"Thoughtful and meticulously researched letter" (my email)???  Surely you jest!

You guys are a barrel of laughs!  You do have a sense of humor after all!

 
Former Mormon

Letter Four (from Dr. Daniel C. Peterson)

Those who are at all familiar with the Recovery from Mormonism message board, a sinkhole of paranoia, self-congratulation, religious bigotry, and pretentiousness, will have no difficulty understanding the point of my irony below.

------ Forwarded Message
From: Daniel C. Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:54:46 -0600
To: Removed by request of the writer
Subject: Re: I could not decide...

On 9/8/03 7:16 PM, "Removed by request of the writer"
In a message dated 9/8/2003 4:07:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, daniel_peterson@byu.edu writes:
Your thoughtful and meticulously researched letter was passed on to me by the editors at Meridian.
"Thoughtful and meticulously researched letter" (my email)???  Surely you jest!

You guys are a barrel of laughs!  You do have a sense of humor after all!

 
Former Mormon

Why didn’t you just go ahead and sign it “SuzieQ#1”?  Did you really imagine that you could hide your identity from me and my fellow mercenary hack minions at Morg Central Command?  We monitor everything, but most especially the profound reasoning and the erudite scholarship of the Recovery board—which terrifies us Morgbots, of course, but which also provides us with virtually our only opportunity to witness truly independent thought . . .  

Letter Five (From Susie Q.)

From: Removed by request of the writer
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:14:10 -0400 (EDT)
To: daniel_peterson@byu.edu
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!

In a message dated 9/8/2003 9:06:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, daniel_peterson@byu.edu writes:
Why didn’t you just go ahead and sign it “SuzieQ#1”?  
I thought you read the board and would know who it was. And you do and you did!  

Did you really imagine that you could hide your identity from me and my fellow mercenary hack minions at Morg Central Command?   
 
Do you monitor my home and phone too, or just read the board. Do you try to put names together and find out their read identity also?
We monitor everything, but most especially the profound reasoning and the erudite scholarship of the Recovery board—which terrifies us Morgbots, of course, but which also provides us with virtually our only opportunity to witness truly independent thought . . .  
Why would you be looking for 'erudite scholarship" on the Recovery Board?
 I would think that you would know that that is not a place to find "virtually our only opportunity to witness truly independent thought."

Your tone is a predictable example of the thinking of the Mormons who are spoon feeding the members with  "erudite scholarship" so their testimony pops right out of their chest.   

I read you web page. That is the kind of "erudite scholarship" that has convinced me that the Mormon Church counts on the members not doing their own research and rely on people like you who use them. Are their testimonies that weak?  

 
Yes, I am sure you are afraid. Very afraid. Otherwise, you would not write articles designed to reinforce the fear of leaving the church.

The church must keep the members afraid they will turn into the distorted view you paint. They must be told that those who leave are not scholarly or capable of independent thought!  You must be making the brethren proud.

You are doing just what the ExMormons expect. You are predictable.  And it is one of the major reasons that people leave Mormonism.

What you are doing is showing the world that you must paint ExMormons as  some kind of evil idiots, to bolster the  testimonies of members because, apparently, the church  must not allow independent study and thought and research outside Mormonism.

They must  keep the members believing by faith  in  that wild and crazy, outrageous story  and Book of Mormon fiction and plagiarized work that Joseph Smith, Jr. and his cronies told!  

It is a corporation. Your work feeds the testimonies that keeps the tithing coming in and keeps your job.

Your work is some of the best advertisement for people not join the Mormon Church.   That and the letters your fellow members write by the hundreds  to the ExMormons.

 
Susie

 [SHIELDS note:  we have deleted the large number of hard returns originally inserted by the author prior to the following:]
Spirit Light & Love Ever Shining

Letter Six (from Dr. Peterson)

From: Daniel C. Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:53:45 -0600
To: Removed by request of the writer
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!

On 9/9/03 11:14 AM, "Removed by request of the writer" wrote:

In a message dated 9/8/2003 9:06:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, daniel_peterson@byu.edu writes:
Why didn’t you just go ahead and sign it “SuzieQ#1”?
I thought you read the board and would know who it was. And you do and you did!  

I’ve hardly kept it a secret that I look in on RfM from time to time.  I’ve told Eric that I do.  I enjoy RfM immensely.

Did you really imagine that you could hide your identity from me and my fellow mercenary hack minions at Morg Central Command?   
 
Do you monitor my home and phone too, or just read the board. Do you try to put names together and find out their read identity also?

Actually, I don’t much care who you are.  I’ve been amused, though, by numerous posts from people on RfM who seem to get a delicious thrill from imagining that employees at FARMS or at Church headquarters are assigned to monitor RfM, and who assume that RfM looms as large in other people’s minds, or in the eyes of Church leadership, as it does in their own.

We monitor everything, but most especially the profound reasoning and the erudite scholarship of the Recovery board—which terrifies us Morgbots, of course, but which also provides us with virtually our only opportunity to witness truly independent thought . . .  
Why would you be looking for 'erudite scholarship" on the Recovery Board?
 I would think that you would know that that is not a place to find "virtually our only opportunity to witness truly independent thought."

I take it you missed the irony?  I should have thought it was too thick to miss.

I was having a bit of fun with the idea—expressed in quite a number of RfM posts that I’ve read—that RfM is a place where deep and independent thinking is going on—as opposed to the “Morg,” where brain-dead “Morgbots” aren’t allowed to read or think—and where powerful arguments are regularly marshaled that destroy “Mopologist” reasoning.  (Candidly, I’ve never seen such an argument at RfM, though I’ve seen a good deal of boasting about how common they are.  Perhaps I’ve just been unlucky in my sampling.)  For a weak restatement of essentially that very idea, see the two paragraphs immediately below:

Your tone is a predictable example of the thinking of the Mormons who are spoon feeding the members with  "erudite scholarship" so their testimony pops right out of their chest.   

I read you web page. That is the kind of "erudite scholarship" that has convinced me that the Mormon Church counts on the members not doing their own research and rely on people like you who use them. Are their testimonies that weak?

I’m not sure what web page you’re referring to.  The FARMS web page, perhaps?  FARMS has produced some very good materials, in my opinion.

Yes, I am sure you are afraid. Very afraid. Otherwise, you would not write articles designed to reinforce the fear of leaving the church.

I’ve never written such an article in my life, and am not inclined to do so.

The church must keep the members afraid they will turn into the distorted view you paint. They must be told that those who leave are not scholarly or capable of independent thought!

I’ve never written such an article in my life, and am not inclined to do so.

You must be making the brethren proud.

Well, I would hope that the various translation series I edit and the symposium at the Library of Congress and things like that don’t exactly embarrass them.

You are doing just what the ExMormons expect. You are predictable.  And it is one of the major reasons that people leave Mormonism.
 
And what is it, exactly, that I’m doing?  Writing articles and books to terrify members?

I’ve never done any such thing.  Where do you come up with this stuff?

What you are doing is showing the world that you must paint ExMormons as  some kind of evil idiots, to bolster the  testimonies of members because, apparently, the church  must not allow independent study and thought and research outside Mormonism.

And where have I done this?

They must  keep the members believing by faith  in  that wild and crazy, outrageous story  and Book of Mormon fiction and plagiarized work that Joseph Smith, Jr. and his cronies told!  
 
I take it that we view things rather differently on this score.

It is a corporation. Your work feeds the testimonies that keeps the tithing coming in and keeps your job.
 
While lamenting my mythical attacks on you and your fellow ex-Mormons, you accuse me—and I’m guessing that you do it without any sense of incongruity—of dishonorable and mercenary motives.  Funny.

Your work is some of the best advertisement for people not join the Mormon Church.   That and the letters your fellow members write by the hundreds  to the ExMormons.
 
Just out of curiosity, could you please identify for me which of my publications, in particular, might be most effective in convincing people that Mormonism is false?

I’ve enjoyed your notes.  Would you mind terribly if I were to share them with some friends?

Best wishes,

Dan Peterson

 [SHIELDS note: hard returns removed]
 
 
Spirit Light & Love Ever Shining

Letter Seven (from Susie Q.)

From: Removed by request of the writer
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:21:18 -0400 (EDT)
To: daniel_peterson@byu.edu
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!

Yes, I  guess I missed your "irony."  The tone was sarcastic, arrogant  and condescending and missed irony by a long mile on an initial read.  Perhaps you could have phrased it differently.

Mormon males are often characterized as arrogant -- even some Mormon Elders at my door a while ago had that arrogant attitude that is so distasteful.
 
My Mormon (TBM), High Priest, BYU graduate, now retired--husband read your comments (I was shocked and shared them with him)  and characterized them as "slamming," and "arrogant" and was not impressed. He felt it was highly inappropriate for someone in your position to take that tone. Guess he missed the "irony" too.

The "bit of fun" you talked about eluded me as I had read nothing to reference what you were talking about.  Perhaps they would have made sense as irony if I had used some of the same words. You pulled stuff out of a hat that had nothing to do with what I was saying. It felt like I had walked in to the room in the middle of a paragraph. I had no idea where you were coming from.

One comment, in the Meridian Article,  in particular was quite humorous, both to me and other ExMormons who saw it as applicable to Mormonism.

"Now we certainly agree that there is an enormous amount of unmitigated silliness masquerading as religious belief.  There always has been, and, we presume, always will be!"

I often refer to Mormonism as just one tiny church; rather silly  and not as horrific as others.
 
"Secularist critics of religion have a responsibility to engage the strongest rational arguments and thinkers religion has produced—not the weakest—if they want their views to be taken as anything other than sloganeering and cheerleading for like-minded atheists. "

Sloganeering and cheerleading for like-minded atheist? That comment really tickled my funny bone!  This is the kind of comment that destroys your credibility on the subject.
 
To set the record clear: I never indicated that anything you write would convince anyone that Mormonism is false. That was not my statement.   
 
To set the record clear, again: this is not personal. I made no comments regarding any mythologic attacks on me or other ExMormons.

FARMS  produces some of the funniest articles about  imaginary characters and animals, etc.in a weak attempt to placate Mormons who have to think their Book of Mormon is literal and factual. OK. They meet their target audience.  They worked for me, too, once upon a time.  I have no idea why they think it is so important to do those articles.  They only appeal to Mormons, from what I can tell.
 
Thousand apologies if I misread  any your comments.  I read several items and could have mixed you up with something I thought was a collaboration with Mr. Hamblin.  If so, forgive my error.  I don't have anything on this computer to double check my references. I have not read any of your translation series that you edit.

I have no idea why Mormons read the bulletin board, but they seem to get a "delicious thrill" whether it is an assignment,  a hobby or an obsession or just a fleeting fancy.  Many of them become ExMormon posters.
 
I do not know the reasons for your loyalty to the Mormon God-myth. Whatever it is, you know which side of the bread it is buttered on and your employer is the Mormon Church.
 
You have enjoyed my notes and want to share them? Hmmm.  It is the reason  they are "enjoyed" that bothers me. I am not confident of your motives.
Thank you for asking, but it would not be highly appropriate to share them. They are not part of the RfM board and I do not know your friends, nor do I know you personally.
 
Oh, and it is:  SusieQ#1   
 
 [SHIELDS Notes:

1. We believe the reference to SusieQ#1 has to do with identification on the Recovery from Mormonism message board.

2. Hard returns removed]

Spirit Light & Love Ever Shining

Letter Eight (from Dr. Peterson)

From: Daniel C. Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 23:04:08 -0600
To: Removed by request of the writer
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!

Dear Susie:

I suppose that writing to you is most likely a futile exercise, as anything I write is likely to be taken merely as further evidence of my bad character and vicious disposition.  I am not an evil person, as I assume you are not.  My colleagues at BYU and at other universities—LDS and non-LDS—seem to think me a decent fellow, even a nice and pleasant one.  So, as far as I can tell, do my neighbors.  Please try not to read everything I write in the most hostile possible way.

On 9/9/03 8:21 PM, "SRemoved by request of the writer" wrote:
Yes, I  guess I missed your "irony."  The tone was sarcastic, arrogant  and condescending and missed irony by a long mile on an initial read.  Perhaps you could have phrased it differently.
Perhaps I could have.  Perhaps, though, you could also have read it with a less uncharitable attitude.  You will recall that you wrote to me first, not the other way around, and that your first note to me was hostile and insulting right off the block.  You were predisposed to judge me harshly.  You had, in fact, already done so.

Mormon males are often characterized as arrogant -- even some Mormon Elders at my door a while ago had that arrogant attitude that is so distasteful.
In my experience, Mormon males run the gamut, as do Mormon females and, for that matter, non-Mormon males and females.  Since you have so completely misread me, I admit that I’m not sure that I can entirely rely on your evaluation of the Mormon elders who were recently at your door.  Perhaps you judged them with the same jaundiced attitude that you have applied to me.

My Mormon (TBM), High Priest, BYU graduate, now retired--husband read your comments (I was shocked and shared them with him)  and characterized them as "slamming," and "arrogant" and was not impressed. He felt it was highly inappropriate for someone in your position to take that tone. Guess he missed the "irony" too.
Please apologize to your husband for me.  I regret that he seems to have misunderstood my remarks in much the same way you did.  I cannot imagine, I admit, why he would have found anything I wrote “shocking.”  Has he read your notes to me?  Mine was pretty mild, by comparison.  I was certainly not personally insulting, as you were to me.

The "bit of fun" you talked about eluded me as I had read nothing to reference what you were talking about.  Perhaps they would have made sense as irony if I had used some of the same words. You pulled stuff out of a hat that had nothing to do with what I was saying. It felt like I had walked in to the room in the middle of a paragraph. I had no idea where you were coming from.
 
One comment, in the Meridian Article,  in particular was quite humorous, both to me and other ExMormons who saw it as applicable to Mormonism.

"Now we certainly agree that there is an enormous amount of unmitigated silliness masquerading as religious belief.  There always has been, and, we presume, always will be!"

I often refer to Mormonism as just one tiny church; rather silly and not as horrific as others.
Plainly, we disagree.
"Secularist critics of religion have a responsibility to engage the strongest rational arguments and thinkers religion has produced—not the weakest—if they want their views to be taken as anything other than sloganeering and cheerleading for like-minded atheists. "

Sloganeering and cheerleading for like-minded atheist? That comment really tickled my funny bone!  This is the kind of comment that destroys your credibility on the subject.
How?

What, I wonder, do you think that Professor Hamblin and I were trying to say?

From your reaction, I’m guessing you’ve fundamentally misunderstood us.

To set the record clear: I never indicated that anything you write would convince anyone that Mormonism is false. That was not my statement.   
Technically, that’s true.  What you actually said was “Your work is some of the best advertisement for people not join the Mormon Church. . . .  You are predictable.  And it is one of the major reasons that people leave Mormonism.”  I was simply curious which of my publications you would put at the top of the list.  Surely not all of my writing is equally potent in keeping, or driving, people out of the Church.    How much of my work have you read?  I suspect very little.  Am I wrong?
To set the record clear, again: this is not personal. I made no comments regarding any mythologic attacks on me or other ExMormons.
Actually, you did.  You said that I claim that ex-Mormons “are not scholarly or capable of independent thought,” and that I “paint ExMormons as some kind of evil idiot.”

I deny having ever said any such thing.  Ever.  Anywhere.  I don’t even believe it.
FARMS  produces some of the funniest articles about  imaginary characters and animals, etc.in a weak attempt to placate Mormons who have to think their Book of Mormon is literal and factual. OK. They meet their target audience.  They worked for me, too, once upon a time.  I have no idea why they think it is so important to do those articles.  They only appeal to Mormons, from what I can tell.
Clearly, your estimate of the scholarly soundness of FARMS differs dramatically from mine.  I wonder how much you’ve actually read.
Thousand apologies if I misread  any your comments.
I accept your apologies.  You have misread me profoundly.
I read several items and could have mixed you up with something I thought was a collaboration with Mr. Hamblin.  If so, forgive my error.  I don't have anything on this computer to double check my references. I have not read any of your translation series that you edit.
Yes, Dr. Hamblin and I co-authored a column that you find ridiculous—and that you found irritating enough that it provoked you to write an abusive and insulting note to me.  I hope you won’t be offended when I say that, from your comments thus far, you (and several others on RfM who have also commented on it) seem to have missed the point of the column in spectacular fashion.  That could, of course, be an indication of our poor writing skills.  And I’m sure that they play a part.  But the fact is that I’ve also received notes from people who clearly did understand the point of the article, so our writing must not be completely incomprehensible.
I have no idea why Mormons read the bulletin board, but they seem to get a "delicious thrill" whether it is an assignment,  a hobby or an obsession or just a fleeting fancy.  Many of them become ExMormon posters.
I don’t know about others, but I’m fascinated, quite honestly, by the level of hostility and bitterness, often extending into personal vitriol aimed at LDS individuals, that I frequently see on RfM.  I’m interested in the phenomenon of religious (and anti-religious) hatred and bigotry.  (My academic specialty is the Near East, so you can see why it catches my attention.)

I do not know the reasons for your loyalty to the Mormon God-myth. Whatever it is, you know which side of the bread it is buttered on and your employer is the Mormon Church.
The reason for my “loyalty to the Mormon God-myth,” as you derisively term it, is that I believe it to be true.

As for your accusation that I’m involved in apologetics for mercenary self-interest, which you’ve now made on at least two separate occasions—incidentally, can you sense how inconsistent it is for you to denounce me as an unpleasant person while at the same time you indulge yourself in such genuinely crass, offensive, and baseless accusations?--I can only reply that I earn my living as a teacher of Arabic and a scholar of Islam, and that my apologetic work is not only uncompensated but has been carried out at some cost to my personal academic interests.  The University never asked me to write on Mormon topics; on the contrary, many at the University, especially in my early years as a professor, sought to discourage me from doing so.
You have enjoyed my notes and want to share them? Hmmm. It is the reason  they are "enjoyed" that bothers me. I am not confident of your motives.
Thank you for asking, but it would not be highly appropriate to share them. They are not part of the RfM board and I do not know your friends, nor do I know you personally.
I’ve enjoyed them precisely because they illustrate yet again the degree of personal contempt and unpleasantness that some at RfM feel justified in expressing when addressing a person whom, as you yourself say of me, they do not know personally.  The offensive language you have used in your notes to me, language that I suspect you’ve scarcely noticed, is striking, and provides me yet further insight into religious (or, in this case, more precisely, anti-religious) prejudice.  I suppose you want me to be candid with you.  That’s the candid explanation.  I suspect, as I said at the top of this note, that you’re probably a decent person.  That makes the abusive and insulting character of the notes you’ve been sending to me, a perfect stranger who has done you no harm, all the more fascinating.

With best wishes,

Dan Peterson

Letter Nine (from SusieQ)

From: Removed by request of the writer
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:58:11 -0400 (EDT)
To: daniel_peterson@byu.edu
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!

You have managed to miss the point,  falsely accuse me of of hatred and bigotry and bitterness, personal contempt, (HOGWASH), offensive language  (nonsense) and a dozen other things.  Shame, shame  on you.  I really thought you knew better than to do that.  It would be humorous if it was not so sad. I think "funny" most of the time, and some of the things you have said, are quite funny.

My husband is very disappointed also.  Your comments are some of the reasons we no longer recommend BUY. Even our own family graduates no longer  recommend it.

Your comments towards me can easily be interpreted as dripping with your hatred and bigotry towards ExMormons and non- believers. It is apparently  at the root of your misstatements and false accusations which go on and on and on through the email.  

Yes, your emails to me are some of the best reasons why I do not associate with Mormons much anymore. We are just not on the same page. I have no hate or bigotry or bitterness and really  vehemently  object to being falsely accused of such dastardly behavior. Just because you said it does not make it true.

Clearly we disagree.
Lets see how this sounds when it is read back to you...

 You profoundly misread me. yes, YOU MISREAD ME!! I’ve enjoyed them precisely because they illustrate yet again the degree of personal contempt and unpleasantness that some at  MORMON PROF AT BYU ETC> TBM>>ETC>MORMONS... feel justified in expressing when addressing a person whom, as you yourself say of me, they do not know personally.  The offensive language you --DAN have used in your notes to me, language that I suspect you’ve scarcely noticed, is striking, and provides me yet further insight into religious (or, in this case, more precisely,prejudice.  TOWARDS NON BELIEVERS.-ATHEIST SECULARISTS .. I suppose you want me to be candid with you.  That’s the candid explanation.  I suspect, as I said at the top of this note, that you’re probably a decent person.  That makes the abusive and insulting character of the notes you’ve been sending to me a perfect stranger who has done you no harm, all the more fascinating.  YES you are indeed insulting and abusive.
It goes both ways.

Goodbye.

[SHIELDS note: less hard returns removed] 
 
Spirit Light & Love Ever Shining

Letter Ten (from Dr. Peterson)

From: Daniel C. Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:14:41 -0600
To: <Removed by request of the writer>
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!

Goodbye.

Spirit Light & Love Ever Shining

Follow up note from Dr. Peterson:

Susie Q:  Final Somber Meditation

I dunno.  Maybe I AM vicious and arrogant.  But I thought SusieQ's reaction
to me was over the top, and her description of me the other day put me
virtually on the same level as Attila the Hun, which seems to me perhaps a
tad overstated.

-dcp