Page Index:
Meridian
article
Letter One
Letter Two
Letter Three
Letter Four
Letter Five
Letter Six
Letter Seven
Letter Eight
Letter Nine
Letter Ten
Final Note
|
Correspondence
between
Susie Q. and Dr. Daniel C. Peterson
The genesis of this correspondence was a
letter to Dr. Peterson, attacking him regarding an article that
appeared in Meridian Magazine (an online Internet private LDS magazine);
one which Dr. Peterson and Dr. Hamblin wrote together. In recent
weeks (as of June 2004), Dr. Peterson has come under fire on the Recovery
from Mormonism message board and Susie Q. has joined in. SusieQ
characterized her correspondence with Dr. Peterson by describing him as :
"barring none, the worst example of
how Mormons behave that I have ever seen," as "disrespectful,
arrogant, rude, and generally discourteous," and as a
"despicable, horrible man" who "will reap what he
sows,"
and remarked that,
"If that is the kind of person they
are hiring now, BYU has gone in the toilet.
It seems
now that Susie Q. wishes to suppress her prior correspondence, but
continue with the vitriol. Moreover, she specifically suppresses her
initial volleys, even when "called" on it. So, without
further ado, we present the original article and the correspondence that
ensued. We interject, but one comment and link.
Meridian
Magazine article:
Is Religion Irrational and
Anti-Intellectual?
A significant
principle of what could be called “secular orthodoxy”—the core
beliefs of modern secularists—is the conviction that religion is
inherently irrational and anti-intellectual.
Although usually simply asserted rather than argued, this
proposition is fundamental to much of the critique by secularists of
the role of religion in modern society.
Essentially, their argument insists that the world would be a
much better place without religion.
This is not a sectarian debate about whether a particular
denomination, belief, or practice is inspired or even beneficial or
harmful. Rather, it is
a critique of religiousness in general, and, in its extreme form, is
universalistic in its condemnation of all forms of religion
throughout history.
A common technique
of the secular critics of religion is the use of the fallacy of the
false generalization—finding one example of aberrant behavior by a
believer in a particular denomination, and claiming that this
aberration is not only normative for all followers of that
particular denomination but for all believers in all religious
denominations throughout history.
(Jon Krakauer’s recent Under
the Banner of Heaven is a monumental exercise in precisely this
fallacy.) Of course, these same people always cry foul whenever
someone—using precisely the same fallacious methodology—attempts
to blame the crimes of Josef Stalin on all atheists because Stalin
was an atheist.
A recent example of
the secularist attack on religiousness can be found in the Op-ed
section of the New York Times (“Believe it, or not,” August 15,
2003, http://www.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/;
note, one must be registered with the NYT to access this web page).
In his article, Nicholas Kristof seems to assume a dichotomy
between reason and religion:
- “American
Christianity is becoming less intellectual and more mystical
over time.”
- There
is a “poisonous divide … between intellectual and religious
America.”
- The
“scholarly and religious worlds [are] increasingly
antagonistic.”
- He
sees a “drift [among believers] away from a rich intellectual
tradition …
toward the mystical.”
For Kristof,
religious belief is inherently unscholarly and anti-intellectual.
A true intellectual and scholar simply cannot believe in this
religion nonsense. But
such a claim is demonstrably untrue.
To take an illustration from just one field:
St. Thomas Aquinas, the titan of medieval scholastic
philosophy, was one of the most rational humans who have ever lived.
“Safely medieval,” someone like Kristof might respond.
But the Society of Christian Philosophers, flourishing to a
degree that few would have thought possible only two or three
decades ago, counts among its members some of the most eminent
philosophical minds now working—including noted thinkers in the
powerhouse philosophy department at Notre Dame, where their
existence might not seem so surprising, but also in such places as
Yale and Oxford.
A related
rhetorical ploy used by Kristof is his claim that “most biblical
scholars” reject the historicity of the virgin birth.
This claim is even remotely plausible only if one
systematically excludes from the data pool all conservative
Protestants and Catholics with doctorates in religious studies. What Kristof really means, of course is that “most secular
biblical scholars” reject the virgin birth—which is hardly a
great discovery, since their secular presuppositions allow them no
alternative. You see,
believers in the virgin birth, even if they have Ph.D.s and teach in
the field at universities, are not really “scholars.”
All this posturing
is rather ironic when we remember the original meaning and history
of the word intellectual
and its cognates intellect
and intelligence (Latin: intellectus,
intellegere, intelligentia).
In the classical sense of the term, intellect
means essentially “understanding,” but in its technical
philosophical and theological usage, the term refers to the capacity
of the soul and mind to perceive and understand spiritual realities.
In a widespread version of Western epistemology—the
doctrine of how we “know”—humans are endowed with senses,
which allow us to understand the material world; with imagination,
which allows us to understand, remember, and manipulate images
derived from the senses; and intellect,
which allows us to understand spiritual realities.
The intellect is the highest and most powerful of our mental
and spiritual faculties. Since
the Enlightenment, however, there has been a steady transformation
of the meaning of the term in English from the capacity to perceive
and understand spiritual realities to the capacity to understand the
material world. Indeed,
for Kristof, and many like him, intellectual
now means precisely the opposite of what it originally meant: a
Kristofian “intellectual” is someone who necessarily rejects the
very existence of spiritual reality.
It is all merely irrational “mysticism” (another term
that Kristof grotesquely misunderstands and misuses).
Now admittedly, Kristof is using the term intellectual
in its normative early twenty-first century English sense.
But the transformation of the meaning of the word is an
integral part of the centuries-long battle between agnosticism and
religion, which now allows Kristof to proclaim victory precisely
because, due to its redefinition, there can be no such thing as a
religious intellectual. Kristof
is engaged in lexical imperialism—defining the meaning of a word
in such a way as to gain an illegitimate ideological advantage.
Whereas
Descartes’ famous dictum Cogito, ergo sum—“I think, therefore I am”—was foundational
to the Enlightenment, its spiritual alternative would be Intellego, ergo sum—“I understand [spiritual realities],
therefore I am”—or, as St. Anselm put it, “I believe, that I
might understand” (credo ut
intelligam). St.
Augustine agreed: “Faith seeks,” he said, “understanding
finds” (fides quaerit,
intellectus invenit). Faith
is not the opposite of intellect; rather faith is the foundation for
the true intellectual. In
other words, according to the original sense of the word, the only
true intellectuals—indeed, the only people who can use the
intellect—are believers who use the full capacity of their souls
and minds to seek an understanding of the things of God.
(It is likely, by the way, that Abraham 3.19-22 and Doctrine
and Covenants 93:29-36 and 130:18-19 use intelligence—the
capacity to be intellectual—in this original sense of the word,
often obscured in priesthood quorum discussions of these verses,
which assume the post-Enlightenment meaning.)
In reality, at the
foundation of the critics’ assertions that religion is irrational
and anti-intellectual is the fact that religious believers have a
different set of founding assumptions than do secularists.
Secularist agnostics and atheists are necessarily
materialists and naturalists. Believers
claim the existence of a spiritual reality.
Both claims are equally unprovable, and remain
presuppositions. But it
is no more a matter of faith to presuppose the existence of God than
it is to presuppose that God does not exist.
Neither proposition can be demonstrated to others beyond
possible doubt; both are therefore matters of faith.
Secularists
nonetheless attempt to define the rules of the debate with believers
by claiming that only people who reject spiritual things can be
rational and intellectual. Historically,
of course, their position is simply absurd.
If believing in God makes one irrational and
anti-intellectual, one must, with a wave of the hand, dismiss most
of the great thinkers of world history—Socrates, Plato, Aristotle,
Plotinus, Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, Erasmus, Luther, Pascal,
Kierkegaard. And these
are only a few names from the western tradition, to which could be
added hundreds of Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists and
Confucianists. The
history of science also teaches us that, while relying on the
material evidence of the senses alone, one can be perfectly
reasonable and yet quite definitively mistaken.
Given the presuppositions and evidence of the fourteenth
century it was eminently reasonable to believe in geocentricity; it
was also completely wrong. Likewise,
belief in galaxies or viruses would have been sheer folly before the
nineteenth century.
We want to
emphasize that we believe reason to be a powerful and important
mental tool in human life and thought. We encourage everyone—especially those who disagree with
us!—to be as reasonable and rational as possible.
But, like all other tools, it has its limitations.
If one is seeking to insert a screw into a wall, a hammer,
despite its obvious power, is a poor choice—as one of us has found
to his dismay on several occasions.
The most obvious proof of reason’s limitations is the
simple fact that, despite centuries of study and discussion, secular
agnostics, all of whom claim equally to be followers of pure reason,
have been unable to come to any consensus about any
major philosophical issue (other than, perhaps, the idea that God
does not exist, which, of course, they actually cannot prove).
Indeed, many “intellectuals” today argue, in a rather
astonishing abandonment of the essence of reason and intellect, that
pure reason must lead us ultimately to relativism, the belief that
there is no truth or reality, only perception and political power.
Now
we certainly agree that there is an enormous amount of unmitigated
silliness masquerading as religious belief.
There always has been, and, we presume, always will be. On the other hand, the same can be said concerning ideas
about politics, economics, modern art, archaeology, health-care,
space aliens, fashion, wine tasting, and, yes, even agnosticism and
atheism. But
“intellectuals” like Kristof indulge in straw-man tactics when
they deride religious faith as irrational and anti-intellectual.
Secularist critics of religion have a responsibility to
engage the strongest rational arguments and thinkers religion has
produced—not the weakest—if they want their views to be taken as
anything other than sloganeering and cheerleading for like-minded
atheists. |
Letter One
(from Susie Q.)
------ Forwarded Message
From: Scot & Maurine Proctor <proctor@meridianmagazine.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:40:02 -0400
To: Daniel Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Subject: Fw: I could not decide...
Dan,
We always get a few of these letters on any substantial article.
Thanks for your good work.
Maurine
----- Original Message -----
From: Removed by request of the writer
To: editor@meridianmagazine.com
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 3:07 PM
Subject: I could not decide...
whether this article "Ideas and Society:
Is Religion Irrational and Anti Intellectual" was humor-satire,
or a logic fallacy test. Either way, it was quite a funny
read. There are two blatant logic fallacy usage's which would
make you fail the test with flying colors. I will leave it to you to
figure out which ones I am referring to.
I would not give you high
marks for your definitions of the words either. You definitions are
so subjective, they are transparent! I will leave it to you to
review the word definitions in common usage also!
As a long time-Mormon (now resigned) I
can see that your target audience (believing Mormons) would eat up
this stuff!
You guys really ought to be writing satire for
a humor magazine.
For grown men with an
education, I can only presume that this is humor as it does not meet
any other standard.
cheers
Former Mormon who sees right
through your posturing! |
Letter Two
(from Dr. Daniel C. Peterson)
From: Daniel
C. Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:53:16 -0600
To: Removed by request of the writer
Subject: Re: I could not decide...
Dear “Suzzies”:
Your thoughtful and meticulously researched letter was passed on
to me by the editors at Meridian.
Talk about hilarious posturing!
With best wishes,
Dan Peterson
|
Letter
Three (from Susie Q. Todd)
From: Removed
by request of the writer
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:16:55 -0400 (EDT)
To: daniel_peterson@byu.edu
Subject: Re: I could not decide...
In a message dated 9/8/2003 4:07:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
daniel_peterson@byu.edu writes:
Your thoughtful and meticulously
researched letter was passed on to me by the editors at Meridian.
"Thoughtful
and meticulously researched letter" (my email)??? Surely
you jest!
You guys are a barrel of laughs! You do
have a sense of humor after all!
Former Mormon |
Letter
Four (from Dr. Daniel C. Peterson)
Those who are at all
familiar with the Recovery from Mormonism message board, a sinkhole
of paranoia, self-congratulation, religious bigotry, and
pretentiousness, will have no difficulty understanding the point of
my irony below.
------ Forwarded Message
From: Daniel C. Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 21:54:46 -0600
To: Removed by request of the writer
Subject: Re: I could not decide...
On 9/8/03 7:16 PM, "Removed by request of the writer"
In a message dated 9/8/2003 4:07:39 PM
Pacific Daylight Time, daniel_peterson@byu.edu writes:
Your thoughtful and meticulously
researched letter was passed on to me by the editors at Meridian.
"Thoughtful
and meticulously researched letter" (my email)??? Surely
you jest!
You guys are a barrel of laughs! You
do have a sense of humor after all!
Former Mormon
Why didn’t you just go ahead and sign it “SuzieQ#1”? Did
you really imagine that you could hide your identity from me and my
fellow mercenary hack minions at Morg Central Command? We
monitor everything, but most especially the profound
reasoning and the erudite scholarship of the Recovery board—which
terrifies us Morgbots, of course, but which also provides us with
virtually our only opportunity to witness truly independent thought
. . . |
Letter
Five (From Susie Q.)
From: Removed
by request of the writer
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:14:10 -0400 (EDT)
To: daniel_peterson@byu.edu
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!
In a message dated 9/8/2003 9:06:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
daniel_peterson@byu.edu writes:
Why didn’t you just go ahead and
sign it “SuzieQ#1”?
I thought you
read the board and would know who it was. And you do and you did!
Did you really imagine that you could hide your identity from me and
my fellow mercenary hack minions at Morg Central Command?
Do you monitor my home and phone too, or just read the board. Do
you try to put names together and find out their read identity also?
We monitor everything, but most
especially the profound reasoning and the erudite scholarship of
the Recovery board—which terrifies us Morgbots, of course, but
which also provides us with virtually our only opportunity to
witness truly independent thought . . .
Why would you
be looking for 'erudite scholarship" on the Recovery Board?
I would think that you would know that that is not a place to
find "virtually our only opportunity to witness truly
independent thought."
Your tone is a predictable example of the
thinking of the Mormons who are spoon feeding the members with
"erudite scholarship" so their testimony pops right
out of their chest.
I read you web page. That is the kind of
"erudite scholarship" that has convinced me that the
Mormon Church counts on the members not doing their own research and
rely on people like you who use them. Are their testimonies that
weak?
Yes, I am sure you are afraid. Very afraid.
Otherwise, you would not write articles designed to reinforce the
fear of leaving the church.
The church must keep the members afraid
they will turn into the distorted view you paint. They must be told
that those who leave are not scholarly or capable of independent
thought! You must be making the brethren proud.
You are doing just what the ExMormons
expect. You are predictable. And it is one of the major
reasons that people leave Mormonism.
What you are doing is showing the world
that you must paint ExMormons as some kind of evil idiots, to
bolster the testimonies of members because, apparently, the
church must not allow independent study and thought and
research outside Mormonism.
They must keep the members believing
by faith in that wild and crazy, outrageous story and
Book of Mormon fiction and plagiarized work that Joseph Smith, Jr.
and his cronies told!
It is a corporation. Your work feeds the
testimonies that keeps the tithing coming in and keeps your job.
Your work is some of the best advertisement
for people not join the Mormon Church. That and the
letters your fellow members write by the hundreds to the
ExMormons.
Susie
[SHIELDS note: we have deleted the large number of hard
returns originally inserted by the author prior to the following:]
Spirit Light
& Love Ever Shining
|
Letter
Six (from Dr. Peterson)
From: Daniel
C. Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 17:53:45 -0600
To: Removed by request of the writer
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!
On 9/9/03 11:14 AM, "Removed by request of the writer"
wrote:
In a message dated 9/8/2003 9:06:38 PM
Pacific Daylight Time, daniel_peterson@byu.edu writes:
Why didn’t you just go ahead and
sign it “SuzieQ#1”?
I thought you
read the board and would know who it was. And you do and you did!
I’ve hardly kept it a secret that I
look in on RfM from time to time. I’ve told Eric that I
do. I enjoy RfM immensely.
Did you really imagine that you could hide your identity from me
and my fellow mercenary hack minions at Morg Central Command?
Do you monitor my home and phone too, or just read the board.
Do you try to put names together and find out their read identity
also?
Actually, I don’t much care who you
are. I’ve been amused, though, by numerous posts from
people on RfM who seem to get a delicious thrill from imagining
that employees at FARMS or at Church headquarters are assigned to
monitor RfM, and who assume that RfM looms as large in other
people’s minds, or in the eyes of Church leadership, as it does
in their own.
We monitor everything, but
most especially the profound reasoning and the erudite
scholarship of the Recovery board—which terrifies us Morgbots,
of course, but which also provides us with virtually our only
opportunity to witness truly independent thought . . .
Why would you
be looking for 'erudite scholarship" on the Recovery Board?
I would think that you would know that that is not a place
to find "virtually our only opportunity to witness truly
independent thought."
I take it you missed the irony?
I should have thought it was too thick to miss.
I was having a bit of fun with the idea—expressed in quite a
number of RfM posts that I’ve read—that RfM is a place where
deep and independent thinking is going on—as opposed to the “Morg,”
where brain-dead “Morgbots” aren’t allowed to read or
think—and where powerful arguments are regularly marshaled that
destroy “Mopologist” reasoning. (Candidly, I’ve never
seen such an argument at RfM, though I’ve seen a good deal of
boasting about how common they are. Perhaps I’ve just been
unlucky in my sampling.) For a weak restatement of
essentially that very idea, see the two paragraphs immediately
below:
Your tone is a predictable example of the
thinking of the Mormons who are spoon feeding the members with
"erudite scholarship" so their testimony pops
right out of their chest.
I read you web page. That is the kind of
"erudite scholarship" that has convinced me that the
Mormon Church counts on the members not doing their own research
and rely on people like you who use them. Are their testimonies
that weak?
I’m not sure what web page you’re
referring to. The FARMS web page, perhaps? FARMS has
produced some very good materials, in my opinion.
Yes, I am sure you are afraid. Very
afraid. Otherwise, you would not write articles designed to
reinforce the fear of leaving the church.
I’ve never written such an
article in my life, and am not inclined to do so.
The church must keep the members afraid
they will turn into the distorted view you paint. They must be
told that those who leave are not scholarly or capable of
independent thought!
I’ve never written such an
article in my life, and am not inclined to do so.
You must be making the brethren proud.
Well, I would hope that the various
translation series I edit and the symposium at the Library of
Congress and things like that don’t exactly embarrass them.
You are doing just what the ExMormons
expect. You are predictable. And it is one of the major
reasons that people leave Mormonism.
And what is it, exactly, that I’m
doing? Writing articles and books to terrify members?
I’ve never done any such thing. Where do you come up with
this stuff?
What you are doing is showing the world
that you must paint ExMormons as some kind of evil idiots,
to bolster the testimonies of members because, apparently,
the church must not allow independent study and thought and
research outside Mormonism.
And where have I done this?
They must keep the members
believing by faith in that wild and crazy, outrageous
story and Book of Mormon fiction and plagiarized work that
Joseph Smith, Jr. and his cronies told!
I take it that we view things rather
differently on this score.
It is a corporation. Your work feeds the
testimonies that keeps the tithing coming in and keeps your job.
While lamenting my mythical attacks on
you and your fellow ex-Mormons, you accuse me—and I’m guessing
that you do it without any sense of incongruity—of dishonorable
and mercenary motives. Funny.
Your work is some of the best
advertisement for people not join the Mormon Church. That
and the letters your fellow members write by the hundreds to
the ExMormons.
Just out of curiosity, could you please
identify for me which of my publications, in particular, might be
most effective in convincing people that Mormonism is false?
I’ve enjoyed your notes. Would you mind terribly if I were
to share them with some friends?
Best wishes,
Dan Peterson
[SHIELDS note: hard returns removed]
Spirit Light & Love Ever Shining
|
Letter
Seven (from Susie Q.)
From: Removed by
request of the writer
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:21:18 -0400 (EDT)
To: daniel_peterson@byu.edu
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!
Yes, I guess I missed your
"irony." The tone was sarcastic, arrogant and
condescending and missed irony by a long mile on an initial read.
Perhaps you could have phrased it differently.
Mormon males are often characterized as arrogant -- even some Mormon
Elders at my door a while ago had that arrogant attitude that is so
distasteful.
My Mormon (TBM), High Priest, BYU graduate,
now retired--husband read your comments (I was shocked and shared
them with him) and characterized them as "slamming,"
and "arrogant" and was not impressed. He felt it was
highly inappropriate for someone in your position to take that tone.
Guess he missed the "irony" too.
The "bit of fun" you talked about
eluded me as I had read nothing to reference what you were talking
about. Perhaps they would have made sense as irony if I had
used some of the same words. You pulled stuff out of a hat that had
nothing to do with what I was saying. It felt like I had walked in
to the room in the middle of a paragraph. I had no idea where you
were coming from.
One comment, in the Meridian Article,
in particular was quite humorous, both to me and other
ExMormons who saw it as applicable to Mormonism.
"Now we certainly agree that there is an enormous amount of unmitigated
silliness masquerading as religious belief. There always
has been, and, we presume, always will be!"
I often refer to Mormonism as just one tiny church; rather silly
and not as horrific as others.
"Secularist critics of religion have a responsibility to
engage the strongest rational arguments and thinkers religion has
produced—not the weakest—if they want their views to be taken as
anything other than sloganeering and cheerleading for like-minded
atheists. "
Sloganeering and cheerleading for like-minded atheist? That comment
really tickled my funny bone! This is the kind of comment that
destroys your credibility on the subject.
To set the record clear: I never indicated that anything you write
would convince anyone that Mormonism is false. That was not my
statement.
To set the record clear, again: this is not
personal. I made no comments regarding any mythologic attacks on me
or other ExMormons.
FARMS produces some of the funniest articles about imaginary
characters and animals, etc.in a weak attempt to placate Mormons who
have to think their Book of Mormon is literal and factual. OK. They
meet their target audience. They worked for me, too, once upon
a time. I have no idea why they think it is so important to do
those articles. They only appeal to Mormons, from what I can
tell.
Thousand apologies if I misread any your
comments. I read several items and could have mixed you up
with something I thought was a collaboration with Mr. Hamblin.
If so, forgive my error. I don't have anything on this
computer to double check my references. I have not read any of your
translation series that you edit.
I have no idea why Mormons read the bulletin board, but they seem to
get a "delicious thrill" whether it is an assignment,
a hobby or an obsession or just a fleeting fancy. Many
of them become ExMormon posters.
I do not know the reasons for your loyalty to the Mormon God-myth.
Whatever it is, you know which side of the bread it is buttered on
and your employer is the Mormon Church.
You have enjoyed my notes and want to share them? Hmmm. It is
the reason they are "enjoyed" that bothers me. I am
not confident of your motives.
Thank you for asking, but it would not be highly appropriate to
share them. They are not part of the RfM board and I do not know
your friends, nor do I know you personally.
Oh, and it is: SusieQ#1
[SHIELDS Notes:
1. We believe the reference to SusieQ#1
has to do with identification on the Recovery from Mormonism message
board.
2. Hard returns removed]
Spirit Light
& Love Ever Shining
|
Letter
Eight (from Dr. Peterson)
From: Daniel C.
Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 23:04:08 -0600
To: Removed by request of the writer
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!
Dear Susie:
I suppose that writing to you is most likely a futile exercise, as
anything I write is likely to be taken merely as further evidence of
my bad character and vicious disposition. I am not an evil
person, as I assume you are not. My colleagues at BYU and at
other universities—LDS and non-LDS—seem to think me a decent
fellow, even a nice and pleasant one. So, as far as I can
tell, do my neighbors. Please try not to read everything I
write in the most hostile possible way.
On 9/9/03 8:21 PM, "SRemoved
by request of the writer"
wrote:
Yes, I guess
I missed your "irony." The tone was sarcastic,
arrogant and condescending and missed irony by a long mile
on an initial read. Perhaps you could have phrased it
differently.
Perhaps I could have. Perhaps,
though, you could also have read it with a less uncharitable
attitude. You will recall that you wrote to me
first, not the other way around, and that your first note to me was
hostile and insulting right off the block. You were
predisposed to judge me harshly. You had, in fact, already
done so.
Mormon males are often characterized as
arrogant -- even some Mormon Elders at my door a while ago had
that arrogant attitude that is so distasteful.
In my experience, Mormon males run the
gamut, as do Mormon females and, for that matter, non-Mormon males
and females. Since you have so completely misread me, I admit
that I’m not sure that I can entirely rely on your evaluation of
the Mormon elders who were recently at your door. Perhaps you
judged them with the same jaundiced attitude that you have applied
to me.
My Mormon (TBM), High Priest, BYU graduate,
now retired--husband read your comments (I was shocked and shared
them with him) and characterized them as
"slamming," and "arrogant" and was not
impressed. He felt it was highly inappropriate for someone in your
position to take that tone. Guess he missed the "irony"
too.
Please apologize to your husband for me.
I regret that he seems to have misunderstood my remarks in
much the same way you did. I cannot imagine, I admit, why he
would have found anything I wrote “shocking.” Has he read
your notes to me? Mine was pretty mild, by comparison. I
was certainly not personally insulting, as you were to me.
The "bit of fun" you talked about
eluded me as I had read nothing to reference what you were talking
about. Perhaps they would have made sense as irony if I had
used some of the same words. You pulled stuff out of a hat that
had nothing to do with what I was saying. It felt like I had
walked in to the room in the middle of a paragraph. I had no idea
where you were coming from.
One comment, in the Meridian Article, in particular
was quite humorous, both to me and other ExMormons who saw it as
applicable to Mormonism.
"Now we certainly agree that there is an enormous amount
of unmitigated silliness masquerading as religious belief.
There always has been, and, we presume, always will
be!"
I often refer to Mormonism as just one tiny
church; rather silly and not as horrific as others.
Plainly, we disagree.
"Secularist critics of
religion have a responsibility to engage the strongest rational
arguments and thinkers religion has produced—not the
weakest—if they want their views to be taken as anything other
than sloganeering and cheerleading for like-minded atheists.
"
Sloganeering and cheerleading for like-minded atheist? That
comment really tickled my funny bone! This is the kind of
comment that destroys your credibility on the subject.
How?
What, I wonder, do you think that Professor Hamblin and I were
trying to say?
From your reaction, I’m guessing you’ve fundamentally
misunderstood us.
To set the record clear: I never indicated
that anything you write would convince anyone that Mormonism is
false. That was not my statement.
Technically, that’s true. What
you actually said was “Your work is some of the best advertisement
for people not join the Mormon Church. . . . You are
predictable. And it is one of the major reasons that people
leave Mormonism.” I was simply curious which of my
publications you would put at the top of the list. Surely not
all of my writing is equally potent in keeping, or driving, people
out of the Church. How much of my work have you
read? I suspect very little. Am I wrong?
To set the
record clear, again: this is not personal. I made no comments
regarding any mythologic attacks on me or other ExMormons.
Actually, you did. You said that I
claim that ex-Mormons “are not scholarly or capable of independent
thought,” and that I “paint ExMormons as some kind of evil
idiot.”
I deny having ever said any such thing. Ever. Anywhere.
I don’t even believe it.
FARMS produces
some of the funniest articles about imaginary characters and
animals, etc.in a weak attempt to placate Mormons who have to
think their Book of Mormon is literal and factual. OK. They meet
their target audience. They worked for me, too, once upon a
time. I have no idea why they think it is so important to do
those articles. They only appeal to Mormons, from what I can
tell.
Clearly, your estimate of the scholarly
soundness of FARMS differs dramatically from mine. I wonder
how much you’ve actually read.
Thousand
apologies if I misread any your comments.
I accept your apologies. You have
misread me profoundly.
I read several
items and could have mixed you up with something I thought was a
collaboration with Mr. Hamblin. If so, forgive my error.
I don't have anything on this computer to double check my
references. I have not read any of your translation series that
you edit.
Yes, Dr. Hamblin and I co-authored a
column that you find ridiculous—and that you found irritating
enough that it provoked you to write an abusive and insulting note
to me. I hope you won’t be offended when I say that, from
your comments thus far, you (and several others on RfM who have also
commented on it) seem to have missed the point of the column in
spectacular fashion. That could, of course, be an indication
of our poor writing skills. And I’m sure that they play a
part. But the fact is that I’ve also received notes from
people who clearly did understand the point of the article,
so our writing must not be completely incomprehensible.
I have no idea
why Mormons read the bulletin board, but they seem to get a
"delicious thrill" whether it is an assignment, a
hobby or an obsession or just a fleeting fancy. Many of them
become ExMormon posters.
I don’t know about others, but I’m
fascinated, quite honestly, by the level of hostility and
bitterness, often extending into personal vitriol aimed at LDS
individuals, that I frequently see on RfM. I’m interested in
the phenomenon of religious (and anti-religious) hatred and bigotry.
(My academic specialty is the Near East, so you can see why it
catches my attention.)
I do not know the reasons for your loyalty
to the Mormon God-myth. Whatever it is, you know which side of the
bread it is buttered on and your employer is the Mormon Church.
The reason for my “loyalty to the
Mormon God-myth,” as you derisively term it, is that I believe it
to be true.
As for your accusation that I’m involved in apologetics for
mercenary self-interest, which you’ve now made on at least two
separate occasions—incidentally, can you sense how inconsistent it
is for you to denounce me as an unpleasant person while at the same
time you indulge yourself in such genuinely crass, offensive, and
baseless accusations?--I can only reply that I earn my living as a
teacher of Arabic and a scholar of Islam, and that my apologetic
work is not only uncompensated but has been carried out at some cost
to my personal academic interests. The University never asked
me to write on Mormon topics; on the contrary, many at the
University, especially in my early years as a professor, sought to
discourage me from doing so.
You have enjoyed my
notes and want to share them? Hmmm. It is the reason they
are "enjoyed" that bothers me. I am not confident of
your motives.
Thank you for asking, but it would not be highly appropriate to
share them. They are not part of the RfM board and I do not know
your friends, nor do I know you personally.
I’ve enjoyed them precisely because
they illustrate yet again the degree of personal contempt and
unpleasantness that some at RfM feel justified in expressing when
addressing a person whom, as you yourself say of me, they do not
know personally. The offensive language you have used in your
notes to me, language that I suspect you’ve scarcely noticed, is
striking, and provides me yet further insight into religious (or, in
this case, more precisely, anti-religious) prejudice. I
suppose you want me to be candid with you. That’s the candid
explanation. I suspect, as I said at the top of this note,
that you’re probably a decent person. That makes the abusive
and insulting character of the notes you’ve been sending to me, a
perfect stranger who has done you no harm, all the more fascinating.
With best wishes,
Dan Peterson |
Letter
Nine (from SusieQ)
From: Removed by
request of the writer
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:58:11 -0400 (EDT)
To: daniel_peterson@byu.edu
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!
You have managed to miss the point, falsely
accuse me of of hatred and bigotry and bitterness, personal
contempt, (HOGWASH), offensive language (nonsense) and a dozen
other things. Shame, shame on you. I really
thought you knew better than to do that. It would be humorous
if it was not so sad. I think "funny" most of the time,
and some of the things you have said, are quite funny.
My husband is very disappointed also. Your
comments are some of the reasons we no longer recommend BUY. Even
our own family graduates no longer recommend it.
Your comments towards me can easily be
interpreted as dripping with your hatred and bigotry towards
ExMormons and non- believers. It is apparently at the root of
your misstatements and false accusations which go on and on and on
through the email.
Yes, your emails to me are some of the best
reasons why I do not associate with Mormons much anymore. We are
just not on the same page. I have no hate or bigotry or bitterness
and really vehemently object to being falsely accused of
such dastardly behavior. Just because you said it does not make it
true.
Clearly we disagree.
Lets see how this sounds when it is read back to you...
You profoundly misread me. yes,
YOU MISREAD ME!! I’ve enjoyed them precisely because they
illustrate yet again the degree of personal contempt and
unpleasantness that some at MORMON PROF
AT BYU ETC> TBM>>ETC>MORMONS... feel justified in
expressing when addressing a person whom, as you yourself say of me,
they do not know personally. The offensive language you --DAN
have used in your notes to me, language that I suspect you’ve
scarcely noticed, is striking, and provides me yet further insight
into religious (or, in this case, more precisely,prejudice. TOWARDS
NON BELIEVERS.-ATHEIST SECULARISTS .. I suppose you want me
to be candid with you. That’s the candid explanation. I
suspect, as I said at the top of this note, that you’re probably a
decent person. That makes the abusive and insulting character
of the notes you’ve been sending to me
a perfect stranger who has done you no harm, all the more
fascinating. YES you are indeed
insulting and abusive.
It goes both ways.
Goodbye.
[SHIELDS note: less hard returns removed]
Spirit Light
& Love Ever Shining |
Letter
Ten (from Dr. Peterson)
From: Daniel
C. Peterson <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:14:41 -0600
To: <Removed by request of the writer>
Subject: Re: I could not decide...!
Goodbye.
Spirit Light
& Love Ever Shining
|
Follow
up note from Dr. Peterson:
Susie Q: Final
Somber Meditation
I dunno. Maybe I AM vicious and
arrogant. But I thought SusieQ's reaction
to me was over the top, and her description of me the other day put
me
virtually on the same level as Attila the Hun, which seems to me
perhaps a
tad overstated.
-dcp |
|