SHIELDS header banner /w logo

A&O Ministries
Critics Corner
Resources
HOME


SEARCH


 


Alpha & Omega Ministries


Dr. William (Bill) J. Hamblin was referred to an e-tract on "Dr." James White's Alpha & Omega web site.  The e-tract is entitled "Temples Made With Hands."  Dr. Hamblin wrote a response, which he has graciously shared with SHIELDS.  His response, along with ensuing correspondence with "Dr." White, appears below:


Dated: 22 September 1999

Dear James,
Here are a few of my (unsolicited) observations about one of your "etracts."  I address you in the third rather than the first person, since it is going to be posted on SHIELDS.
Enjoy!
Bill Hamblin

"Tract made without evidence"
[Dr.] William J. Hamblin

I would like to make a few observations regarding James White's anti-Mormon tract, "Temple Made With Hands."

1.  White informs us that God generously "allowed His people to build a single temple, located in Jerusalem" but that "never did God allow His people to build multiple temples."   White's use of the word allowed to describe God's command to build temples is a serious distortion.  Temple building is one of the premier commands from God to Israel, as the vast portions of the Old Testament focusing on temple building and worship clearly demonstrates.  (I am assuming the functional equivalency of tabernacle and temple, which I also assume White will not dispute.)

2.  Here is a list of the major Israelite cultic centers, shrines, locations for the tabernacle, and temples, which were in operation during biblical times, based on archaeological and/or textual evidence [SHIELDS note: the numbers in brackets after each name represent centuries B.C.]:

Mosaic Tabernacle {-13C}
Gilgal {-13C}
Ebal {-13C}
Shechem {-12C}
Shiloh {-12C to -11C}
Kirjath-jearim {-11C}
Gibeon (-11C to -10C)
Megiddo (-10C)
Jerusalem (-10C to 1C)
Arad {-10C to -7C}
Lachish {-10C to -8C}
Dan {-10C to -8C}
Bethel (-9C)
Beer-Sheba {-8C to -7C}
Elephantine/Aswan {-6C to -4C}
Shechem/Mt. Gerizim (Samaritan)
Leontopolis/Tel Yehudia by Onias (near Heliopolis) {-160 to 73}
which replaced/united several other Jewish temples in Egypt

It is quite clear there is more going on here than White's simplistic claim that "never did God allow His people to build multiple temples" would lead us to believe.  God certainly did allow it, since it clearly happened.  Whether he commanded it, or accepted their worship as authentic, or tolerated apostate temples unwillingly, or viewed them as abominations is a different question.  But many, if not most Israelites apparently believed that multiple temples were possible.

3. When White writes, "there were no secret ceremonies, no endowments, so [sic] sealings in the temple in Jerusalem" he is hardly informing the LDS of something new, nor contradicting one of our cherished doctrines.  The Old Testament temple of Jerusalem was run by the Aaronic priesthood, and thus could not have performed LDS-style temple ritual, which require Melchizedek priesthood authority.  (This is not to say that such rituals were necessarily unknown in Old Testament times-this is another question-only that such rituals were not performed in the Aaronic temple of Jerusalem, or at least were not part of the public cultus.)  Also, White's exposition on the body as temple metaphor is hardly damaging to the LDS position, since we believe the same metaphor, though we understand it somewhat differently.  The real question is, is the body the only temple.

4. He also asserts (without the slightest pretense of evidence), that "the early Christians did not seek to build a temple in Jerusalem, or anywhere else, for that matter.  Christians have never built temples."  Then precisely how is the Anti-Christ to enter and sit in "temple of God" in the last days (2 Thes. 2:4) if there is to be no temple of God?

Unfortunately for White, it is quite clear that the New Testament apostles continued to worship in the Jerusalem temple after Christ's ascension (Acts 2:46, 3:1-10, 5:20-42).  Even Paul worshipped there (Acts, 21:26-30, 22:17, 24:6-18, 25:8, 26:21).  Paul is explicitly said to have performed purification rituals (Acts 21:26, 24:18), and prayed in the temple (Acts 22:17, cf. 3:1); he claims that he has not offended "against the temple," implying he accepts its sanctity (Acts 25:8).  Indeed, Paul also offered sacrifice (prosfora) in the temple (Acts 21:26, cf. Num 6:14-18), a very odd thing for him to do if the temple had been completely superceded after Christ's ascension.  Finally, and most importantly, Paul had a vision of Christ ("The Just One" ton dikaion) in the temple (Acts 22:14-21), paralleling Old Testament temple theophanies, and strongly implying a special sanctity in the temple, where God still appears to men even after Christ's ascension.

The books of Hebrews and Revelations are filled with descriptions of God's Temple in Heaven (Heb 8-9; Rev 11, 15, and numerous allusions throughout; for more details from an LDS perspective, see Holzapfel and Seely, My Father's House: Temple Worship and Symbolism in the New Testament, [Bookcraft, 1994], 183-249).  Why the prominence of these descriptions of a heavenly temple if it is such a transitory and superceded institution and edifice?

Historically, many medieval Christians explicitly called their great basilicas and cathedrals temples:  Constantine's Holy Sepulcher, Justinian's Hagia Sophia, and Leo's basilica in Rome (See Nibley's "Christian Envy of the Temple" Mormonism and Early Christianity, 399-409.)  Of course, the Christianized Dome of the Rock was explicitly called Templum Domini, the "temple of the Lord" by the Crusaders, and the monks and priests serving there were the Templars, the priestly order of the Temple!  And, from their perspective, the ancient Israelite temple sacrifices continued in the Christianized form of the mass, as can be seen in the allegorical mosaics at Ravenna, to give just one example.  Baptists may never have built temples, but Christians certainly did.

5.  White makes the (again unsubstantiated) claim that "the priesthood has been fulfilled in Christ" and that Christians do not need "a mediating priesthood."  In this he is flatly contradicted by both the New Testament and early Christian writers.

Why, if Christ has removed all need for human priesthood authority, did Christ order the lepers he healed to go to the Jewish priests for purification (Mk 1:44, Lk 17:14)?  Apparently Christ believed that his miraculous powers of healing did not negate or supercede the priesthood authority of the Jewish priests.  I suppose White could argue that Christ had not yet ascended into heaven and replaced the Jewish High Priest.  If so, why does Peter speak of a post ascension "holy priesthood" (1 Pet 2:5) and "royal priesthood" (1 Pet 2:9) among Christians?  Likewise John in Revelations speaks of the saints as "priests to his [Christ's] God and Father" (1:6), and "priests to our God" (5:10); in the resurrection there "shall be priests of God and of Christ" (20:6).  What odd statements for an infallible book to make if White's understanding of priesthood is correct.

Some of the earliest Christians also explicitly disagree with White's claims.  The author of the Didache, (one of the earliest post-New Testament Christian documents, late first to early second century), states explicitly that "the prophets ... are your high priests" (13.1).  Note the plural here:  the prophets (profetais) are the Christians' high priests (archiereis).  So, early post-New Testament Christians had prophets (a thing White believes Christians shouldn't have) who were high priests (a thing White believes Christians shouldn't have); and there were apparently simultaneously more than one high priest.  (See also 1 Clement 40-44; the article in Ferguson's Encyclopedia of Early Christianity, pp. 754-5 provides references to other second and early third century Christian sources mentioning Christian priests.)

Unfortunately, and not untypically, White has misunderstood and misrepresented the LDS position, Scripture, and early Christian history on temples.


Subsequent Relevant Correspondence
Letter One

From: James White [mailto:orthopodeo@aomin.org]
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 2:35 PM
To: William J. Hamblin (by way of Alpha and Omega Ministries <xapis@aomin.org>)
Subject: Re: Response to James on Temples

"William J. Hamblin (by way of Alpha and Omega Ministries )" wrote:
> Dear James,
> Here are a few of my (unsolicited) observations about one of your >"etracts."  I address you in the third rather than the first person,
> since it is going to be posted on SHIELDS.
> Enjoy!
> Bill Hamblin
>

Why thank you.  And I'm sure you won't mind if I post it on our site along with a rebuttal.
James>>>

Letter Two

Subject:  RE: Response to James on Temples
Date:  Mon, 04 Oct 1999 14:23:53 -0600
From:  "William J. Hamblin" <william_hamblin@byu.edu>
To:  orthopodeo@aomin.org

Dear James,

It's been almost two weeks and I have not yet seen your "rebuttal."  Can I expect it any time soon?

You have my permission to post my letter on your web site with the following conditions:

1- That you allow SHIELDS to post your original "etract" on their site, along with any further correspondence from you on this issue.
2- That you do not change my letters to you (except for deletion of redundant repetitions typical of email).
3- That you post ALL of my correspondence on this issue.

I seem to recall that the last time we had an email debate you had a bit of trouble with number three.

Can I have any assurance from you that you will not again summarily end the discussion and refuse to fully post my position on the debate?

Were you up in Salt Lake for conference?

Letter Three

From: James White [mailto:orthopodeo@aomin.org]
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 11:15 AM
To: William J. Hamblin
Subject: Re: Response to James on Temples

"William J. Hamblin" wrote:
> Dear James,
>
> It's been almost two weeks and I have not yet seen your >"rebuttal."  Can I  expect it any time soon?

As time permits.  It arrived the day before I left town.  Are you in a hurry?  I promise to respond to your note sooner than you replied to my tract: which I wrote in 1994, as I recall.

BTW, I have no interest in your demands . You sent a rebuttal to my tract:  I will rebut it, not open up our page to an endless series of meaningless e-mail messages.  If you wish to post such things on SHIELDS, that is, of course, your prerogative.
James>>>

Here is a note from Dr. Hamblin to members of the SKINNY e-list, concerning the previous e-mail:

I suspect what this functionally means is, it ain't gonna happen.
He will not post my letter until he has a response ready.
He will, thereafter, not post my rebuttal to his response.
I can conclude that he doesn't quite feel up to a debate on this issues.  I can further conclude that he will never respond, since to do so will simply bring more rebuttals from me.

Note, also, that he did not reject the idea of SHIELDS posting his original etract on the web page!


Letter Four

From:  William J. Hamblin [mailto:william_hamblin@byu.edu]
Sent:  Wednesday, October 06, 1999 11:45 AM
To:  orthopodeo@aomin.org
Subject: RE: Response to James on Temples

JAMES WHITE responds:
As time permits. It arrived the day before I left town.  Are you in a hurry?  I promise to respond to your note sooner than you replied to my tract:  which I wrote in 1994, as I recall.

BILL
I'm not in a particular hurry; I am simply interested to know:
A- Are you planning to respond?
B- If so, broadly when?
And, I should point out, although you may have posted your etract in 1994, I first read it on precisely the same day I sent you my response.  I don't want to disillusion you, but I really don't read everything you write the moment you write it.  Sorry.

JAMES
BTW, I have no interest in your demands.  You sent a rebuttal to my tract:  I will rebut it, not open up our page to an endless series of meaningless e-mail messages.  If you wish to post such things on SHIELDS, that is, of course, your prerogative.

BILL
I'm charmed, as usual, by your view of my cogent response to your etract as "meaningless."

I take your vague statement here to mean that SHIELDS can post your original tract, and that we will post the entire, unabridged and unedited debate (if such ever really occurs) on SHIELDS.
Bill


Letter Five

From: James White [mailto:orthopodeo@aomin.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 1:44 PM
To: William J. Hamblin
Subject: Re: Response to James on Temples

"William J. Hamblin" wrote:

> I'm charmed, as usual, by your view of my cogent response to your
> etract as "meaningless."
> I take your vague statement here to mean that SHIELDS can post
> your original tract, and that we will post the entire, unabridged and
> unedited debate (if such ever really occurs) on SHIELDS.

BTW, I did not refer to your response as meaningless.  I was referring to your assertion that not including meaningless e-mails in our previous "debate" was somehow "editing" the debate.  The e-mails that I did not post were irrelevant to the point under discussion, i.e., meaningless.

One of the projects that I have already undertaken is an exegetical dialogue/debate on our website.  A group of four to five people will be providing an in-depth exegesis of the following passages: John 6:35-45, Romans 8:28-34, Romans 9:10-24, and 2 Peter 2:1-10.  So far myself, Dr. Michael Brown (representing a non-Reformed, Arminian perspective), and Gregory Stafford (a well-known apologist for the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society) have agreed to participate.  I am looking for a Roman Catholic representative, and a Mormon representative.  Would you be interested in participating, or, would you forward the project to someone who might?  The dialogue would take place over quit some time.  Each would write an exegesis of the passages, then would write a brief critique of each of the others, finishing with a defense of their own exegesis based upon the posted critiques of the others.  It should, when completed, provide a useful contrast in exegetical methodologies and consistencies.

Please let me know if you, or one of your colleagues, would be willing to participate in such an exchange.

James>>>


An additional reply from James
Letter Six

From: James White [mailto:orthopodeo@aomin.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 1:33 PM
To: William J. Hamblin
Subject: Re: Response to James on Temples

"William J. Hamblin" wrote:

> I'm not in a particular hurry; I am simply interested to know:
> A- Are you planning to respond?
> B- If so, broadly when?
> And, I should point out, although you may have posted your etract in >1994, I  first read it on precisely the same day I sent you my >response. I don't want to disillusion you, but I really don't read >everything you write the moment you write it. Sorry.

I will post a response on our web page when it is proper to do so; i.e., when my writing and teaching duties allow the investment of a few moments to point out the basic problems with your response.  As to an extended discussion, such would not be something I would have interest in at this time.

James>>>

Letter Seven

Subject:  RE: Response to James on Temples
Date:  Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:30:12 -0600
From:  "William J. Hamblin" <william_hamblin@byu.edu>
To:  orthopodeo@aomin.org

Dear James:

You Wrote:

[I sent this 10/6, but have not received a reply. Trying a second time:] 

BTW, I did not refer to your response as meaningless.  I was referring to your assertion that not including meaningless e-mails in our previous "debate" was somehow "editing" the debate.  The e-mails that I did not post were irrelevant to the point under discussion, i.e., meaningless.

This assertion on your part could certainly be disputed, as anyone comparing the SHIELDS register with your selections can see.

One of the projects that I have already undertaken is an exegetical dialogue/debate on our website. A group of four to five people will be providing an in-depth exegesis of the following passages: John 6:35-45, Romans 8:28-34, Romans 9:10-24, and 2 Peter 2:1-10.

Personally, I am not interested in debating this particular topic.

I passed your email along to some friends when you first sent it to me, but, apparently no one is taking the bait.  Sorry.

I still eagerly await your response on my email "Tract made without evidence."

Bill


Letter Eight

From: James White <orthopodeo@aomin.org>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 10:56 AM
To: "William J. Hamblin" <william_hamblin@byu.edu>
Subject: Re: Response to James on Temples

>I sent this 10/6, but have not received a reply.  Trying a second time:

"William J. Hamblin" wrote:

> I'm charmed, as usual, by your view of my cogent response to your >etract as "meaningless."
> I take your vague statement here to mean that SHIELDS can post >your  original tract, and that we will post the entire, unabridged and >unedited debate (if such ever really occurs) on SHIELDS.

BTW, I did not refer to your response as meaningless.  I was referring to your assertion that not including meaningless e-mails in our previous "debate" was somehow "editing" the debate.  The e-mails that I did not post were irrelevant to the point under discussion, i.e., meaningless.  

One of the projects that I have already undertaken is an exegetical dialogue/debate on our website.  A group of four to five people will be providing an in-depth exegesis of the following passages: John 6:35-45, Romans 8:28-34, Romans 9:10-24, and 2 Peter 2:1-10.  So far myself, Dr. Michael Brown (representing a non-Reformed, Arminian perspective), and Gregory Stafford (a well-known apologist for the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society) have agreed to participate.  I am looking for a Roman Catholic representative, and a Mormon representative.  Would you be interested in participating, or, would you forward the project to someone who might?  The dialogue would take place over quit some time.  Each would write an exegesis of the passages, then would write a brief critique of each of the others, finishing with a defense of their own exegesis based upon the posted critiques of the others.  It should, when completed, provide a useful contrast in exegetical methodologies and consistencies.  Please let me know if you, or one of your colleagues, would be willing to participate in such an exchange.
James>>>


Letter Nine

Subject: RE: Response to James on Temples
Date:  Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:03:49 -0600
From:  "William J. Hamblin" <william_hamblin@byu.edu>
To:  orthopodeo@aomin.org


JAMES:
I see.  Well, I see a connection between the subjects, actually:  LDS are not strong on exegesis, and this debate/dialogue, I believe, would provide a forum for others to compare the methodology and consistency of each participant.

BILL:
Please stop the stereotyping.  The fact that some "LDS are not strong on exegesis" is not an indication that all are [not].  Most Evangelicals are not strong on exegesis either.  Shall we deal with specific issues?

JAMES:
Your comments on priesthood in the NT, for example, are eisegetical to the extreme.

BILL:
I await evidence and analysis to back up your assertion.

JAMES:
Be that as it may, thanks for forwarding the note to others.
I may have to go with one of the "lay apologists" out there.

BILL:
Good Luck

Letter Ten

From: James White [mailto:orthopodeo@aomin.org]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 1999 12:02 PM
To: William J. Hamblin
Subject: Re: Response to James on Temples

"William J. Hamblin" wrote:
> JAMES:
> I see.  Well, I see a connection between the subjects, actually:  >LDS are not strong on exegesis, and this debate/dialogue, I believe, >would provide a forum for others to compare the methodology and >consistency of each participant.
>
> BILL:
> Please stop the stereotyping.  The fact that some "LDS are not >strong on exegesis" is not an indication that all are [not].  Most >Evangelicals are not strong on exegesis either.  Shall we deal with >specific issues?

Sure.  From where I sit I can see about one dozen commentaries on Galatians, an equal number on Romans (some of which are many hundreds of pages long), at least twenty on John as well.  They are all written by Protestants (with a few Roman Catholic contributions as well).  None are written by Mormons.  I'd *like* to have some, but alas, they are hard to come by.  That is what I mean:  Mormonism is not known, for example, for its exegetical work in Romans.  I would submit that the reasons are many (view of revelation, the Bible, the priesthood concept, and most of all, holding a view of God that is so utterly opposite of that of the writers of Scripture as to render meaningful exegesis impossible), but they are reasons none the less.  Beyond this, you must admit that your normal LDS person is not overly interested in such issues, and that there are FAR more Protestant evangelicals concerned about exegetical issues in Scripture.

> JAMES:
> Your comments on priesthood in the NT, for example, are
> eisegetical to the extreme.
>
> BILL:
> I await evidence and analysis to back up your assertion.

That's fine.  Just a comment.
> JAMES:
> Be that as it may, thanks for forwarding the note to others.
> I may have to go with one of the "lay apologists" out there.
>
> BILL:
> Good Luck

I don't believe in luck, but that's OK. :-)


Letter Eleven

Subject: RE: Response to James on Temples
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:26:39 -0600
From: "William J. Hamblin" <william_hamblin@byu.edu>
To:  orthopodeo@aomin.org

Dear James,

Since you insist on flights of fantasy in the realms of personal opinion rather than detailing your objections to my "Tract made without Evidence," here are my reactions to your opining.

JAMES
Sure.  From where I sit I can see about one dozen commentaries on Galatians, an equal number on Romans (some of which are many hundreds of pages long), at least twenty on John as well.  They are all written by Protestants (with a few Roman Catholic contributions as well).  None are written by Mormons. I'd *like* to have some, but alas, they are hard to come by.  That is what I mean: Mormonism is not known, for example, for its exegetical work in Romans.

BILL
Odd that you should mention that.  FARMS is soon to publish the first volume of a multi-volume (I'm not sure how many) commentary on Romans by James Falconer, Dean of GE and Honors here at BYU. Others are scheduled to follow. 

But, yes, there aren't a lot of LDS commentaries, but there are some.  See, for example, the Studies in Scripture series from the BYU religious studies center.

I think there are several reasons for this.  Among others:

First, LDS scholars would probably agree with 80-90% of what is in most scholarly commentaries, so there is no need to reinvent the wheel.  Where we disagree we write articles detailing specific issues of disagreement.

Second, we are spending most of our time looking at D&C and Book of Mormon issues, on which we have produced vast amounts of material.

Third, we are a small and young church, only beginning our third generation college-educated people who are concerned with such matters.  Fifty years ago there were perhaps only a half a dozen LDS who could read Greek and Hebrew.  Today, there are hundreds.  Give us time.

JAMES
I would submit that the reasons are many (view of revelation, the Bible, the priesthood concept, and most of all, holding a view of God that is so utterly opposite of that of the writers of Scripture as to render meaningful exegesis impossible), but they are reasons none the less.

BILL
What utter bilge.

JAMES
Beyond this, you must admit that your normal LDS person is not overly interested in such issues, and that there are FAR more Protestant evangelicals concerned about exegetical issues in Scripture.

BILL
This may be true, but there are far more Protestant evangelicals period.  Thus, proportionally, the numbers of serious scholars are rather similar.  (See my reason number two and three above)

JAMES
I don't believe in luck, but that's OK. :-)

BILL
Neither do I.  My statement was simply a pleasantry.

To date, no further response has been received by Dr. Hamblin from "Dr." White.